Rick Perry announces Texas Won't Implement Obamacare

[grnlude97]

Originally Posted by Dopavash

Funny, I haven't seen where you or anyone else has actually refuted what was posted in the article, other than your silly ignorant blather, but whatever.

BTW, you are exactly what you claim to dislike, and your attempt to discredit what was in that poll is a perfect example. I didn't respond to you earlier because I haven't had just a ton of time lately and I didn't find that your very lame excuses were worth much of it.

How about you actually post something of worth, of some substance, other than "No, these idiots are all stupid and ignorant and here's absolutely nothing to back up my position."

Since you are so smart, go back and read Chalks post where it refutes your pointless made up stat. Goodluck replying to this post after you find it (even though according to you it never happened, it's right IN THIS THREAD!). Too funny, you only make yourself look worse.

Daniel

[grnlude97]

Originally Posted by Dopavash

Funny, I haven't seen where you or anyone else has actually refuted what was posted in the article, other than your silly ignorant blather, but whatever.

BTW, you are exactly what you claim to dislike, and your attempt to discredit what was in that poll is a perfect example. I didn't respond to you earlier because I haven't had just a ton of time lately and I didn't find that your very lame excuses were worth much of it.

How about you actually post something of worth, of some substance, other than "No, these idiots are all stupid and ignorant and here's absolutely nothing to back up my position."

Actually, since you are obviously blind (both figuratively and literally apparently) and I am feeling nice, I will help you out.

Originally Posted by Chalkboard EK6

I was refraining from responding to this thread, because I disagree with the popular opinion in this thread, and arguing my points would require some time to ensure that I have the correct information with respective sources. However, this one point was easy to respond to since I just got done reading an article discussing this survey. I did want to mention that that 83% statistic is indeed a misrepresentation of information regarding the issue. The response rate of the survey 4.3% of the sampling pool, and the survey itself was poorly written (as in the actual question didn't even directly ask about the Healthcare act and the responses didn't represent any middle ground).



And as with some surveys, there's no telling how biased the sampling pool was, so the opinion of 4.3% is not representative of all doctors.
Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ey-finding-83/

There seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding current events, especially with the healthcare reform, and it is disheartening to see people so willing to regurgitate information they've heard/read without doing the proper research (and I'm not just targeting one side, this goes for both viewpoints). I suppose this is due to the instant gratification mind set that many people have. If you don't get results right away? Not worth the time. But all of these political issues requires a lot of time, research, and reading. All things a lot of people are not willing to do, allowing them to live in their blissful ignorance. That is, until the time comes when shit really hits the fan.

Good luck, but remember, it NEVER happened. :facepalm:

Originally Posted by Dopavash

Funny, I haven't seen where you or anyone else has actually refuted what was posted in the article, other than your silly ignorant blather, but whatever.

Daniel

[Dopavash]

Originally Posted by grnlude97

So you are 27 and "responsible" but do not have insurance. That means that I am paying for your insurance (or as you twist is, your freedom) and infringing on MY freedom. So are you going to tell me yours is more valuable than mine? I know you are young and you probably feel you are invinsible and nothing will ever happen. Also, I wish no ill health on anyone. However, you are one car accicent or cancer diagnosis away from costing me money (my freedom) because you decided it was not important. Hell, you get bit by the wrong mosquito and your treatment could cost hundreds of thousands.

If this bothers you, then you ought to be calling for the repeal of laws that force hospitals to grant care to folks to can't and won't pay.

Originally Posted by grnlude97

If something happens to you I have to pay because you choose to prioritize other things in your life. The doctors are not going to refuse treatment whether you want to or not. See, I know that we are in this together as residents of this country, whether I want to be or not. Why do you think you have to have car insurance if you choose to drive? Unfortunately you can not choose whether to live (in the greater sense). I know you do not think healthcare is a universal right, and maybe it should not be (save that discussion for another time) but in practice it is. People simply use the ER as their doctors office and we all pay for it. Afterall people want to survive so unless people just start saying "oh well, just let me die," or worse yet have hospitals turn people away, then we have to come up with a way to get everyone to contribute.

To the bold, why?

To the underlined, Driving on public roads is a privilege. If you do not drive on public roads, you do not have to have insurance. Existing is your right. Mandates on your existence are not the prevue of government. The Car insurance argument is asinine and philosophically void to the point of being pathetic.

[Dopavash]

Originally Posted by grnlude97

Actually, since you are obviously blind (both figuratively and literally apparently) and I am feeling nice, I will help you out.



Good luck, but remember, it NEVER happened. :facepalm:





Daniel

I didn't say it never happened, moron. I said I didn't see it. Point of fact, I didn't.

And sorry, I have a difficult time believing much of anything Politicrap has to say. I could very easily back up why I feel this way with quite a bit of examples, but per your ways, I'll just say they're biased.

Even if the poll was incorrect in it's findings, it really isn't very consequential on the issues to me. The law is crap, has always been crap, and is fully intended to be a back door to socialized medicine.

[eternalsun]

Originally Posted by grnlude97

So you are 27 and "responsible" but do not have insurance. That means that I am paying for your insurance (or as you twist is, your freedom) and infringing on MY freedom. So are you going to tell me yours is more valuable than mine? I know you are young and you probably feel you are invinsible and nothing will ever happen. Also, I wish no ill health on anyone. However, you are one car accicent or cancer diagnosis away from costing me money (my freedom) because you decided it was not important. Hell, you get bit by the wrong mosquito and your treatment could cost hundreds of thousands.

If something happens to you I have to pay because you choose to prioritize other things in your life. The doctors are not going to refuse treatment whether you want to or not. See, I know that we are in this together as residents of this country, whether I want to be or not. Why do you think you have to have car insurance if you choose to drive? Unfortunately you can not choose whether to live (in the greater sense). I know you do not think healthcare is a universal right, and maybe it should not be (save that discussion for another time) but in practice it is. People simply use the ER as their doctors office and we all pay for it. Afterall people want to survive so unless people just start saying "oh well, just let me die," or worse yet have hospitals turn people away, then we have to come up with a way to get everyone to contribute.

Daniel

Sorry this post is not the more organized but I am highly distracted as I type this.

Holy shit. An almost adult reply, almost no bashing, no name calling, etc. I'm quite shocked.

On to my reply and I'll keep it mature since you have. Yes, I font have insurance, yes I am healthy and yes, god forbid, if something horrendous were to happen I would be in a world of trouble. Having said that, it would still not be monetarily through tax payer funds be passed on to you, the tax payer.

Let me get a bit more personal and delve into my life a little so as to prove why.
I have had insurance since before I was born. In the womb, covered by my father and mothers insurance. Post birth, the same. When I moved out, covered by my own insurance through the companies I've worked for. Up until November of last year, I was never without it. When I was asked to start learning the family trade, I knew there would be some sacrifices, albeit brief but sacrifices never the less. Before departing from my last job I went to get a physical, blood work, eye check up and lastly, teeth cleaning and all around dental check up. Knowing I might be without insurance for a few to several months, I took the risk.
As a matter of fact, if I had started working for my family just 3 months sooner, I would have had insurance, if only for a short while. You see, prices spiked and my father decided to drop the company insurance to look for a better deal. He has been with them almost since the beginning. Call it obamacare, or coincidence, either way it happened.

So yes, as if right now I am without but short of a million dollar operation, between my good health, company liability insurance, workers compensation and savings, I am pretty well covered.

Just because I preach detachment from state aid, does not mean I also would go around the back and use it. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[Flores]

I think we have been looking at this from the wrong perspective... the problem with the OLD health care system is that it was hopelessly underfunded. Government has applied the normal government solution to the problem. When you have a program that has to survive, you don't cut it back, you find funding for it.

All this reform does is ensure there is enough money to continue the existing programs. So, there is not really any new benefits to anyone here, just a truing up of the expenses, and reallocating the bill to folks who have money.

If they had called it the 'responsible government health care financing bill', I doubt it would have as much pain and suffering associated with it. It also wouldn't have passed.

The one thing people should learn from this is that charity is expensive, and you can't do it unless you actually have the money to pay for it.

[MadFooker]

Originally Posted by Flores

I think we have been looking at this from the wrong perspective... the problem with the OLD health care system is that it was hopelessly underfunded. Government has applied the normal government solution to the problem. When you have a program that has to survive, you don't cut it back, you find funding for it.

All this reform does is ensure there is enough money to continue the existing programs. So, there is not really any new benefits to anyone here, just a truing up of the expenses, and reallocating the bill to folks who have money.

If they had called it the 'responsible government health care financing bill', I doubt it would have as much pain and suffering associated with it. It also wouldn't have passed.

The one thing people should learn from this is that charity is expensive, and you can't do it unless you actually have the money to pay for it.

I don't agree with everything you post Flores but I enjoy reading your posts (only in the classroom cus youre corny in ramblings lol) because it's objective with little to no emotional input

[Chalkboard EK6]

Originally Posted by eternalsun

This is in no way a personal attack, I'm just stating my opinion. If I were put in the position where I got a girl pregnant, if I needed to work two jobs or three jobs to take care of my family, so be it but you wouldn't see me taking a dime from the government. Just my $0.02

Again, I haven't taken anything that's been directed towards me as a personal attack (maybe with the exception of a few passive aggressive jabs). The questions that are being presented are excellent and I appreciate the mature discussion.

I actually started a response to some of your points and other points discussed in the thread last night, but forgot to forward it to myself so I could finish. Once you get past the unnecessary attacks and commentary that doesn't add any value to the discussion, you're left with pretty insightful information from both sides that should be taken into consideration when forming an educated opinion about the topic.

I apologize for the length of my responses, though. Maybe I'm used to writing long, detailed responses because of school, but I've been having trouble compressing my POV into something that's more readable. My next response is already quite long, so I hope people aren't too discouraged from reading it.

Edit: Also, since I'm on off topic in this post anyway. I think it's really cool that you're able to barter for health care services. As someone who barters my services as a nail technician, I've never considered applying the system towards the health of myself or my family (maybe because I don't have doctor/dentist friends yet), and it's something that I'm going to keep in mind.

[Flores]

Originally Posted by MadFooker

I don't agree with everything you post Flores but I enjoy reading your posts (only in the classroom cus youre corny in ramblings lol) because it's objective with little to no emotional input

LOL. It's only corny because of generation gap (if your anywhere close to the average age of H-I). I assure you, I'm funny as hell. It's kinda scary, but some of my high school classmates have kids your age. And are already grandparents. Fuhhhh... The chick I'm dating right now, all three of her adult aged kids have buns in the oven... she's about to be a grandma x3....

[Kohinoor]

damn this obamacare!!!

[Dopavash]

Dating? No more Mrs Flores?

[Dopavash]

Originally Posted by Kohinoor

damn this obamacare!!!

[IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/xnotoriousfobx/for%20sale/obamacare.jpg[/IM G]

Yeah, I got one of those too. Looks like premiums will go up to cover it. Yay redistribution!


Its amazing to me to see how some folks can think that any time they ever get money, its always and can only be a good thing. :facepalm: Sheep, I tell ya.

[Kohinoor]

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[MadFooker]

Originally Posted by Dopavash

Yeah, I got one of those too. Looks like premiums will go up to cover it. Yay redistribution!


Its amazing to me to see how some folks can think that any time they ever get money, its always and can only be a good thing. :facepalm: Sheep, I tell ya.

can u elaborate? they can charge a higher premium all they want but it will be rebated on a yearly basis if they do not utilize 80% to medical costs. They can only use a maximum of 20% collected in premiums to administrative costs!! Rebate to individuals instead of bonus to the execs that has a deny stamp

2 good things came out of the act.. No pre-existing medical condition rejections and 80/20 rule

[Dopavash]

Its the only thing that can happen when the government puts it's icy hands into a business. Either costs will go up or quality will go down. Either way, its a win for those who want to see a single payer system.

[Flores]

Originally Posted by Dopavash

Dating? No more Mrs Flores?

ya, I kicked her out in february.... happy birthday to me!

[ETB4U]

Originally Posted by MadFooker

can u elaborate? they can charge a higher premium all they want but it will be rebated on a yearly basis if they do not utilize 80% to medical costs. They can only use a maximum of 20% collected in premiums to administrative costs!! Rebate to individuals instead of bonus to the execs that has a deny stamp

2 good things came out of the act.. No pre-existing medical condition rejections and 80/20 rule

What's 20% of 100? What's 20% of 1000? Get it now?

[Flores]

I have a buddy who works at blue cross blue shield in IT. If you rely on them for health care, you better get your calendar out to time how quickly they get back to you on things.

they are cutting staff, reducing tech refreshes, and slashing EVERYTHING. new equipment purchases are being frozen indefinitely. and the staff are being told the new laws are forcing the budget constraints (which makes sense. who the hell decided 20% overhead was ok, anyway?)

so, whats going to happen? I would fully expect premiums to go up, followed by the cost of health care, as blue cross figures out how to nickle and dime their way back into some semblance of sanity.

Or, they are going to fail horribly, in a huge burning bonfire of shame, when they realize they have had to go back to paper systems, in order to process things, admin costs have gone up 4x, and they have half the money they did before to spend on it.

Can you say 'going out of business?' I thought you could

[ETB4U]

Nah government bail out for them too. Then we all get Medicare.

[Flores]

Originally Posted by ETB4U

What's 20% of 100? What's 20% of 1000? Get it now?

No, because the other 80% still has to go to health care costs.

what you really mean to say is that health care costs will skyrocket, in order to justify premiums going up, which is needed in order to maintain the admin infrastructure.

In other words, lack of understanding in how a business organization works will lead to a massive backfire.